Should parents of children from "socially deprived areas be allowed to smack their children"?
| Related: | Personal Finance•Your Rights•Other Rights |
The London news is awash with comments made by David Lammy, MP for Tottenham, the primary scene and catalyst area for the start of the London riots in 2011.
What he said on radio today (BBC LONDON 95.9) and Boris Johnson agrees with him, is that if parents were allowed to smack their children, it is highly likely that the London riots would not have happened!
It appears that a number of parents in the area said as much after the riots, they felt parental discipline had been undermined by government legislation, which had outlawed smacking, and that parent(s) feared that if they had instilled physical discipline, then they would have expected social services to intervene!!
I have listened in disbelief at another excuse being offered for the cause of the riots and the fact that many black families (they were were the only featured ethnic group in the news reports) feel that they have lost any control over their children because they are unable to discipline them through some element of physical discipline.
If all it took in this country to eradicate muggings, knife crime, murder and save a fortune of public funding in paying for Operation Trident - a specific police unit dedicated to dealing with black-on-black crimes, was a smack on the hand or even on the back of the legs, then hit away!!
In fact, I'd go so far as to say, if such a response would also help reduce the number of ethnic inmates clogging up our prison system, parents, punch the buggers!
Perhaps it's time for our judicial system to review its policy and stop making criminals, muggers, murderers, robbers and other undesirables, whom enter the country freely and at will, to sit on the naughty step and instead get tough with them by stopping their pocket money, their sweet allowance and asking the parents of those responsible, to accept greater responsibility for the actions of their children, whilst they live under their roofs.
Should parents irrespective of their social deprivation be allowed to smack their children?
Responses (13)
Tis a contentious issue indeed Parchester.
I for one have never hit my sons and they have turned out well and grounded.
They in turn have never hit or smacked their children and they too are nice well mannered youngsters.
As for smacking or a clip around the ear NOT thumping or anything that could be classed as abuse I can glibly say it never did me or hubby any harm when we were growing up.
I feel it's entirely up to the parents whether or not to smack and not some daft government law dictating to us how to discipline our children.
I'm sure you'll have several different responses to you your question I just hope everyone is respectful of each others opinions on this one.
Yes under the right circumstances and at the right time. Parents must always be responsible and demonstrate tough love in the best manner and should often be the natural powers of authority to children, not rock stars, football stars and TV/Movie actors.Too many children know about the laws of the land but do not bother to take note of their own responsibilties towards society and particularly the notion of respect towards parents in the home.
I'm not in favour of smacking personally, and have very rarely, if ever, found the need to smack any of mine. That said, I didn't work during their early years so that I could devote my time to them, and even now fit my working life around school hours so that they don't go back to an empty house. Instead of smacking, wherever possible I explained why something was wrong in terms they understood. I agree a smack may make the child think twice about doing something again, but I have always aimed to ensure they understand the reasoning, rather than getting obedience via fear. Result? Four very well adjusted children who can think for themselves.
I believe physical discipline is very much part of family life in some cultures, and maybe they need support in managing behaviour in other ways
no one should smack a child the naughty step is the way to go
The naughty step is a pretty new concept, bluej. Do you think that kids born pre-naughty step have ended up with more behavioural issues now in their adulthood? Are our teenagers and young people now better behaved because the discipline methods of their parents did not consist of a tap on the bum - but sat them on a step to think about it instead? I don't think kids are better behaved now. In fact, I'm amazed at what they get up to these days. I'm amazed at the way they act in schools and the fact that in some instances teachers are terrified. Kids get stabbed in schools and at the school gates; they are stealing cars and joy riding at 14. I don't think this naughty step is working! Having said that, I do hate to generalise and, of course, there are many instances in which parents do not smack their kids and they are lovely, well brought up, balanced children. But if you look at the very big picture of youth today, there is a big difference to decades gone by.
What an excellent post, SJ, and I have to agree.
When I see what children get away with in school nowadays it just horrifies me. We sat in our rows and did as we were told, and we would be sent to see the headmaster if we didn't.
Our parents, teachers and the local policeman were respected and, yes, feared to a certain extent.
Do you think this has some co-relation with the fact that many children are leaving school with very low levels of literacy and numeracy?
I completely agree with what you, SJ, and Feline are saying here, it was the strict discipline, both at school and at home, not the 'naughty step', that kept previous generations of kids and teenagers out of serious trouble, apart from the odd few.
I was born in 1966 and I believe all of my friends growing up - all white, would get a smack, clip round the ear, harsh tap on the hand if they were disobedient and didnt do what they were told. Not smacking(or similar) seems to be something that has really only emerged in the last 20 years or so. When I was young you'd see kids being smacked in the supermarket by their parents if they ran around and misbehaved and interfered with other shoppers, or grabbed thigs that fell onto the floor. It's not just a 'minority' thing. White parents used to do it all the time and it was the norm - until quite recently. People just appear to have very short memories - or they are too young to remember, it seems. But of course - abusing children is another thing altogether. We all got smacked but I never saw any of my friends getting a savage beating! Hey - I had a schoolteacher who would throw the blackboard rubber at us (he was white) and he meant to get us too - if we misbehaved. So you know what - we behaved in his class!
I had a teacher who did that too, and the ruler across the knuckles and slipper on the bottom....
SJ I agree, my anger stemmed from the bias in the news reports that, once again, appeared to make the riots a black only issue.
Many parents are feeling scared of the consequences of instilling any form of discipline into their children's lives. I was given very clear and definite boundaries and I was left in no doubt about what the consequences would be for breaking them.
But what was clear and was always made abundantly clear, was the reason why I was being punished, and I knew also, and often the punishment was instant and swift.
Too often I hear mixed messages from parents towards their children, which does little to
clarify the outcomes of continued bad behaviour.
In many respects, what has happened at home, has been replicated in the wider society. People grow up never fully knowing or accepting that there are consequences for unacceptable behaviour/actions. We see it on a daily basis that people whom have overstepped the mark and caused actual bodily harm to innocent people are seen to be let off and walk free from court without any repercussions for their actions.
If parents don't accept responsibility for their children, and schools are no longer permitted to instill discipline and the legal system fails to administer proper justice, then it is all too easy for the young to believe that they are free to do as they wish and grow up with a devil may care attitude.
Got to agree the naughty step goes on and on...and the child tries to escape it ,,,it is a bit longwinded ..a short sharp slap tells the child they have done wrong...and then its over in a minute...and we are all happy again...
My children were smacked very rarely, but it was kept in reserve and only used in necessary circumstances. The threat of it worked wonders, because they knew I meant it!
When I lived in Germany, the Germans didn't smack their children, and stared in horrified shock at us Brits, who did, and frankly the German children were rude, pushy and generally behaved very badly, while the British children looked on in horror and amazement at what these other kids were getting away with.
There is no way I would condone abuse of children, but a short sharp smack for the right reasons at the right time and done in the right way, won't do any loved child any harm. As Parchester says, it's about the boundaries of civilised and acceptable behaviour and the consequences of going beyond them.
yes! exactly...thats the way to do it!!!!
Sounds like Punch and Judy......
All forms of punishment should be brought back not just one - Hanging , the birch , the belt - its the only thing some thugs understand - they laugh at the law its time the law became the law and order before this country submerges in a tidal wave of lowlifes especially from the 3rd world.
The thing you dont understand is these people come from countries where slitting someones throat for a basic meal or kidnapping a tourist for a ransom is second nature - you think violent people like these will come here and live on £65 a week when they see footballers and the local yuppies driving around in Ferraris etc
If you are one of the bleeding heart brigade then one day you will be bleeding for real! Crime from outwith Britain is a serious serious issue - when police officers are afraid of certain ethnic areas you know you have a problem. In certain areas down South police officers and their fellow officers and families live in special housing areas together for safety!
Believe me the politicians are covering all the ethnic violence up - Have you not noticed on the news or newspapers when a rape or murder or robbery is committed and its by an ethnic they dont tell you the colour/race of the person involved but when its a white man or Eastern European its alright - watch very closely!!!
They know if the people of this country finally find out the truth behind certain things there would be mass riots.
I was once told by a senior policeman about all the young girls disappearing from Britain over the last 30 years - where do you think many of them went~?
He told me many of them were kidnapped and sold into private Harems and brothels in "you guessed it" - Muslim countries where our women are regarded as nothing less than rubbish to be used and abused - once used throat slit and buried in the desert where no-one will ever find them.
Totally horrified me me that did. And everyone was so suprised when Maddie disappeared - really!
I just wish people would open their eyes and see beyond the facade of lies and spin the politicians blind you with!
Call a spade a spade please its not a fork or a knife!
The third world is third world for a reason and it will never change no matter how much money we pump into it!
Hard-hitting stuff OD, and more than a grain of truth there
Maybe we should be grateful that we were brought up in the Western 'civilised' world and not in a country "where slitting someones throat for a basic meal or kidnapping a tourist for a ransom is second nature". There but by the grace of God I always say. Those poor babies and children don't stand much of a chance for a future like ours - all they'll know is war and violence - it is very, very sad!
Sad indeed, SJ. I agree we should count our blessings.
But some kids are just spoiled rotten!!!!!!! YOU`RE LEFT ASKING WHO IS THE ADULT AND WHO`S THE CHILD!
100% with you, 100% M8!!
As you may have seen me write elsewhere i'm in the process of moving out of London back down to my beloved Devon. London has changed out of all recognition from the place it was 35 years ago when i first moved up.
I saw someone the other day comment that 'London is an internaional City, it just happens to be in England'. How eff'ing true!!There are parts of this once great City that are now virtually no go areas for the indigenous population.
And before anyone wants to jump on the Rascist bandwagon and accuse me of being some white supremasist, an awful lot of the problems, certainly in my area of West London, can be laid squarely at the feet of Eastern Europeans. Although the attitude of Somali's leaves an awful lot to be desired.
As with everything in life it is always the few that spoil it for the many. But try as hard as we can to be accomodating and welcoming, allow them to build their own temples, allow them to practice their own type of law, and even wear items of clothing that the rest of us are not allowed to, still it is not good enough. Abu Qatada preaches hate about us and our lifestyle yet is happy to stay here and bleed our benefits system for every penny he can get. Deport him? Just shoot him!!
How can we be in a situation where local Councils ban St George's Day celebrations for fear of upsetting a minority, yet they are all allowed to celebrate their special days. In parts of the country it is illegal to fly an English Flag!! My son came home from Primary school once upset that there was to be no Xmas Party for a class of 7 year olds in case any non-Christians were offended. WTF!! Yet only weeks earlier they had all celebrated Diwahli!! How does that work?? My two know all about Muslims, Seikhs, Hindus, etc, but sod all about Christianity. Why are teachers so obsessed with wiping 'Englishness' off the face of the school curiculum??
I could go on, but then i might really start to upset people. So will retire to a darkened room for a lie down.
Aah Bonz you bring a tear to my eye all of what you say is disturbingly true. Having it spelt out like that makes it even more evident that things are so dire at the moment.
I watched the Tube on BBC2 and was so relieved that I wasn't a part of that awful swarming mass so called the 'rat race' struggling amongst the masses just to be able to get around our capital city.
I'll bet you can't wait to move to Devon. I hope you have a trouble free move and can soon start to settle down in that beautiful part of the country.
Power to your elbow, Bonz!
When I lived in London in the 70's it was vibrant, fun, and safe. I definitely subscribed to the theory that 'If you're tired of London, you're tired of life'.
Nowadays I go there reluctantly a couple of times a year and I certainly wouldn't travel about alone at night as I used to do as a matter of course.
I'm enjoying my rural idyll, and I hope you will enjoy yours too.
I wouldn't want to travel on my own at night either. Hope you enjoy the rural life Bonz, it can take some time to get used to it after being somewhere like London!
YES A LITTLE SLAP ...
ha ha ha..... Those few short words in capitals makes me envisage you going around giving the naughty kids of the world A LITTLE SLAP! Sorry, it just conjures up something comical, Rosetta. I have to say - I love kids (and I don't have any) but if I see a naughty one in a supermarket say, who is running riot, I so want his mum to give him A LITTLE SLAP just so he knows that he needs to behave himself.
ha! ha!....i feel the same way too in the supermarket, lol!!! i tell myself if that was my child!!!!!!!!! a little slap without hesitation lol!! my kids know now, before we leave the house i make sure to lay down some supermarket rules!!!!
SJKENNY....I must tell you what happened to me in France ...I was in the Notaires office and saw some magazines advertising some properties ,so I helped myself...The french man behind the desk
told me (in french)the magazine was not free ...I replaced the magazine and with my right hand slapped my left wrist....and scolded gently..
The man and his assistant both laughed so loud ...They made me laugh with their response ......and other people wondered what was going on........It still makes me smile
That's sweet, rosetta! :-)
See, Rosetta! And I bet you never did it again! ha ha....
Yes they should, I have heard from my neighbours and friends that back in the olden days in Britain smacking was allowed and it did a lot of good. but now look at the kids today!!!!!!!!!! no proper morals, no respect!!!!. i myself grew up in East Africa....i cant even start to mention the beating i endured, but today i have my two children and i thank my parents for not sparing the rod!!!! they disciplined me and it did not kill me!!!!
Did you see that Tv programme where they sent some English teenagers to live with strict parents in other parts of the world? What an eye opener!
There was a real difference in the way they were expected to behave. MInd you, the teenagers they sent weren't exactly the best of teenagers were they..........?
yes!!! really funny at some parts.... they should have sent them to my country...lol!!! they not only beat boys but girls too... i am talking about being asked to fetch your own stick for the beating, lying down on floor while they smack ur behind raw!!!! they even used hose pipes, wires, shoes, and the classic one "the belt!!!!
Do you really believe that's good? Have only ever rarely (if at all) resorted to hitting my children, but have found time to sit and explain to them why what they've done is wrong, and its worked for me. I hope I've given them the skills to make the right decisions on their own as they move out into the world of independence.
Hi, hannah, and welcome to the Forum.
What you experienced sounds unimaginable to those of us who grew up here, even us oldies who were punished as children.
I take my hat off to you for coming throught it and raising your children to be good people.
I saw some of that, Jazz. Wouldn't have been very interesting TV if they'd sent the really well-behaved ones, would it....!
My children sat there saying how much they'd've liked to have the same opportunity feline. We often find that, they miss out on all the good trips at school because I can't afford them but we don't qualify for help either
Having made some contributions to this discussion, another thought has just occurred to me.
Why would we make a distinction for children from 'socially deprived areas'?
We shouldn't, in a nutshell!
Thank you, Jazz. I thought I wasn't going mad.
Yes - I wonder why the question was worded that way!?
ALL parents should be allowed to smack their children, but only on the bottom or back of the legs with a palm and as an absolute last resort. Too many parents do not know how to discipline their kids, their behaviour gets out of control and we end up with a generation of anti-social yobs, like we have now. To help prevent abuse of a 'smacking privilege' kids can be made aware of what is acceptable discipline either in school (like they do regarding sexual abuse) or even by talking about it on kids tv. When I started behaving badly as a child I was given one firm smack as a last resort and it worked wonders, never needed it again. I know not all kids are the same but I think a large number of the brats I come across could be tamed with one quick slap on the bum. The shock of discovering that bad behaviour has consequences beyond nagging and shouting (which they experience so much of in the modern world they just tune out) Is often enough to make them change their minds about what getting their own way is worth.
Parents whether they are from socially deprived areas or not have a moral and parental responsibility towards their children and as long as this is being rightfully carried out children must respect their parents at all times. I regret to say that we do live in an era where so many children know their rights under the law but do not want to know about their own duty to conduct themselves morally. However, I do not agree that because they so many parents were afraid to smack their own children the riots took place. The causing of the riots were by more sinister planning of almost military precision by mafia type criminals.
Posts within the money.co.uk community represent the views, experiences and opinions of members only. They should not be taken as financial advice and should not be followed without further research.
More Discussions for Other Rights
Get fast answers to your money questions, Expert insight, top tips & much more...
I can totally agree with you, Lillie - certainly never did me any harm. But where do you draw the line between correction and abuse? Not having had children of my own, I'm obviously less qualified than many of you to comment on this, but I wouldn't really think a slap on the legs, which I used to get when I transgressed the boundaries of reasonable behaviour, would be a bad thing.
I feel that, as on many similar issues, legislation is not the answer. It prevents sensible and loving parents from using reasonable correction, but will do nothing to stop the child beaters.
Just like banning anything at all will just punish the reasonable people and have no impact at all on the unreasonable ones.
And I totally agree with you too Feline.
Child beating is a whole other issue nothing akin to a slap on the legs.
Thank you, Lillie. If only the 'Powers That Be' saw it that way I'm sure we'd have less antisocial behaviour and teenage crime.
When I was a kid, the thought of getting a slap from my Mum or a clip round the ear from Dad kept me very much on the straight and narrow.
Have I grown up to be a child abuser? No. Have I ever broken the law? No - well if you ignore the odd speeding offence but I don't even do that any more!
Am I a reasonably adjusted and valuable member of society? I like to think so.
I rest my case.
Nicely put Feline.
Hubby remembers a time when he was caught playing knock and run and got a clip around the ear from a policeman.
No more was said.
Can you imagine the consequences now if that was to happen!
OMG, Lillie, the mind boggles!
they will have a lot more respect for there parents, well done lillie thats a lovely story.