Swiss physicists
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Has anybody wondered why the Swiss physicists don't just go away and do something useful?
So what, if they might or might not have proved that something can move faster than light?
This must have cost zillions, for what?
Responses (12)
....and they are slagging off Albert Einstein! Why? Physics is mostly theory and they are always finding out new things. How dare they slag him off!
Sounds like they've still got a lot to learn.
So you should have been able to see this post before you wrote it. I've got that right haven't I?
Actually I find this whole thing fascinating partly because they used GPS to do some of the calculations - and we all know how accurate those can be don't we?
Ha Ha Ha, Sidesalad! Based on my experience they will finish up in a French farmyard at the end of a no through road!
Or, based on my experience, in the middle of an industrial estate somewhere in Belgium! :-)
I pity the world at present Feline, first Blair and now the Swiss physicists!!
I believe that what is being explored and examined in great detail at the Hadron Collider will, in time (if such a concept exists!) be shown to have enormous benefits for mankind and nature itself. However, the full implications of what is being revealed will take years to fully comprehend.
As long as their findings will be used for good and not developed as the ultimate nuclear weapon.
What isn't helping is the drip, drip release of almost meaningless information. But it's done in order to mainatain a media presence and interest in what is a very expensive and lengthy piece of research.
Sorry if this came across as abit full-on, Parch, but I just thought there might be more worthwhile things to spend the money on than overturning everything we thought we knew!
I studied physics at A Level, and I'm bloody confused now!
BTW, forgot to say, Bliar deserves it, even if the Swiss physicists don't!
"I searched for 'faster than light' on the CERN website and got articles posted in 2012 and 2014. They put this new discovery to work right away!" (Quote from Slashdot.org)
This is indeed one of those 'can of worms' debates that could indeed become viral and brain storm almost into submission!
In the case of the Swiss Boffs, they know the meaning of the phrase 'Knowledge is Power' and they are simply chasing that dream I guess. But you are absolutely right ... the cost of those theatrics bears no relation to the real needs of the world, does it?
I mean, look at the millions who are in poverty, who starve by default, who have no access to daily water supplies or minimum health facilities? And all of this goes on unabated while the rest of the world either lives in varying degrees of total bliss to moderate levels of safety and well being or indeed spends their lives determined to kill, loot or simply blow each other up.
If the world, collectively, had a brain, ew would be suing it to put the world to rights. There is so much pain in this world that is never addressed ... and to spend so much money on something so inconsequential to global needs could be classed as obscene.
I have to disagree with your last sentence Snoopy. Of course there is terrible suffering in the world but we are never going to reach nirvana however much we would like that to happen. Realistically we have to pursue scientific research of all types in order to find better ways of managing our lives in every way. Recent studies have found that every pound spent on scientific research in the UK yields a return of 30 pence every year to the GDP. For medical research it is estimated to be 39 pence.
I know that money is not everything but those figures give an idea of the importance of research to the economy and when we have so little industry left, the scientific community becomes more important.
There will always be those who dislike science and scientists involved in 'pure' research as there seems to be a fear that they may have an evil intent, but that maybe because we do not put sufficient value on science in our schools and are not teaching young people the importance and excitement of making new discoveries and breaking boundaries.
I have to agree with you Snoopy - when are the world governments going to start spending money on the urgent issues like poverty, starvation and renewable energy sources? These are the issues where Scientific research should be taking place.
I agree with miss sidesalad - the world's most important discoveries have been made by science and it is quite probable that the next 'clean' 'cheap' energy source will be discovered by physics research. That will without doubt benefit all people of all nations and could resolve any conflicts about oil, nuclear fuel etc.
Actually war (paradoxically) has led to many of the worlds greatest inventions miss Indo-g!!!
On a lighter note!!
Does this mean if you are a 'sub-atomic atom' (moving faster than light); that you would have to leave the light on all the time???
Would be no good switching it on entering a room.
You would have finished the job before the light came on.
Not very energy efficient if you ask me???
Grr.
You'll realise just how useful it is when I start replying to posts that have yet to be posted...
... And win the lotteries. Every one of them, every time :)
Lol, G-Man, when you win those lotteries, you will remember I'm your bestest friend, won't you?! ;-)
Of course I'll be beneficent with my wealth and reward my loyal subjects :)
Love it, G-Man!
Hi miss feline - I believe this is an Italian experiment that unveiled evidence that fundamental particles known as neutrinos can travel faster than light. Other researchers are cautious about the result, but if it stands further scrutiny, the finding would overturn the most fundamental rule of modern physics-that nothing travels faster than 299,792,458 meters per second.
The experiment is called OPERA (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus), and lies 1,400 meters underground in the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy. It is designed to study a beam of neutrinos coming from CERN, Europe's premier high-energy physics laboratory located 730 kilometers away near Geneva, Switzerland. Neutrinos are fundamental particles that are electrically neutral, rarely interact with other matter, and have a vanishingly small mass. But they are all around us-the sun produces so many neutrinos as a by-product of nuclear reactions that many billions pass through your eye every second. The 1,800-tonne OPERA detector is a complex array of electronics and photographic emulsion plates, but the new result is simple-the neutrinos are arriving 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light allows.
At least one other experiment has seen a similar effect before, albeit with a much lower confidence level. In 2007, the Main Injector Neutrino Oscillation Search (MINOS) experiment in Minnesota saw neutrinos from the particle-physics facility Fermilab in Illinois arriving slightly ahead of schedule. At the time, the MINOS team downplayed the result, in part because there was too much uncertainty in the detector's exact position to be sure of its significance
Hi indogirl, this is very interesting, but, with respect, you really shouldn't plagiarise articles from scientific sources on the net. There is nothing wrong with posting this kind of thing, but you really should acknowledge the source and not present it as your own thoughts. :-)
Bravo Fruitcake ...! And I have to add that the "superluminal" neutrinos may well have been the cause of Tesco PLC cutting their Clubcard points recently ( Snoopy48 28th September 2011 )
Lol, Snoops! :-)
Hello miss fruitcake - I hope others will find this interesting like me - I was not involved with the experiment - I did not intend anyone to believe that I was ? The source is: http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1109/1109.4897.pdf
Hi indogirl, I think we all knew you weren't involved with the actual experiment! :-) We were just trying to point out that you shouldn't plagiarise the work of others, in case you weren't aware that you shouldn't. It can get you into trouble. I'm not sure if you're a student or not, but if you are, it's best never to do this, as it could mean a failed exam or degree. But, as you say, it's very interesting work! :-)
Hi again miss fruitcake Yes you correct I am a student of physics, mathematics and economics, but sorry I think your use of the term plagarism is inappropriate. I am not copying this text and calling it my own, I never did that, and I did state the source. I expect anyone who read the newspapers or media on this topic would know anyway.
I read this topic and just thought it would be interesting to add some more detail and see if others reading it would like to enter into the discussion about the actual physics. I have read many very interesting ideas, opinions, expressions, humour from the people that contribute to these discussions and have not read that there are any restrictions on what can be added. I believe it is up to the individual to contribute or not as they wish but I have not read that anyone is opposed to any sort of discussion despite it being unrelated to money.
Oh and yes I do believe without doubt that it is essential that scientific experimentation continues for mankind to develop, prosper and evolve.
Hi indogirl, copying and publishing a text written by someone else without stating the source is plagiarism, I'm afraid. And you only stated the source after I pointed out to you that you hadn't, so my use of the term plagiarism is appropriate. But, as I said before, there is nothing wrong with posting what you posted, so there was never any suggestion whatsoever that you shouldn't have. My reply was simply to point out that you should have stated the source, and you eventually did that. No one is 'opposed' to what you posted at all! :-)
Sounds like we have a female Stephen Hawking in the making - I just hope she remembers her friends when she has invented true cold fusion....
>;o))))
Thank you mister omen - actually I prefer Leonard Susskind to Stephen Hawking. I don't believe hawking radiation from black holes has ever been observed ? Prof Susskind disproved hawking's theory about information being destroyed in black holes. All mathematical of course !
Also Hawking said the universe was created from nothing - but hasn't published any mathematical or scientific proof of that ! He plagarised Susskind's idea of that !!
Yes I believe NASA have started doing some work on cold fusion.
Hello again Miss fruitcake - I quoted the source in my first response above i.e. "The experiment is called the OPERA (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus) ... etc " After that I stated the full technical paper for the experiment. This is not plagiarism .. its just quoting and summarising the key points from the original scientific paper which I did state very clearly.
Hi indogirl, you don't seem to be quite understanding what 'plagiarism' or 'quoting the source' means. You didn't quote the source in your original response at all, you copied it, or large chunks of it, from some article but didn't acknowledge any source in any way till after I pointed it out to you. Can we let this drop now? It's not a problem, I was only trying to help you, not criticising. :-)
Thank you for helping me miss fruitcake but I do not agree that I plagiarised the article at all and I do understand what that word means. Although I did use the information from the article I never said it was my own work, in fact it was quite obvious that it was not my own work. Thank you again and yes I agree to stop writing now.
OK enough already!!!
Be nice to each other now you are both lovely people so be nice.
Thank you for agreeing to drop this silliness, indogirl, please not another word on this. :-)
lol
And i thought Men were argumentative.
hmmm
Antonino Zichichi, a theoretical physicist and emeritus professor at the University of Bologna, Italy, speculates that the "superluminal" neutrinos detected by OPERA could be slipping through extra dimensions in space, as predicted by theories such as string theory.
Actually Einstein never wrote that nothing can travel faster than light. There are phenomena which certainly can. Einstein's restriction applies to mass or energy. If the results of this experiment are repeatable and verified, then it might suggest that nutrinos have no mass and transport no energy, rather than that they break accepted scientific paradigms by entering a science fiction world of hyperspace with extra dimensions etc.
Well, according to relativity, it takes infinite energy to accelerate subluminal particles to superluminal speeds, hence tachyons are possible (they always travel FTL) but FTL neutrinos would mean relativity doesn't hold.
Then again there are already problems with relativity as it appears the speed of light has changed over time (from astronomical measurements) whereas relativity states it should be constant.
Oh, and relativity and quantum mechanics don't play nice. One or both of those theories have problems that need resolving...
Hi mister G Man I believe string theory and M theory combines relativity and quantum mechanics and predicts the multiverse in 9 or 10 dimensions.
I not sure 'c' has changed after the big bang - but the mathematics do suggest that at the instant of the big bang that 'c' was very much greater.
Yes indeedy I believe harnessing the power of neutrinos will allow us to travel the timeline and eventually lead to time travel but the question will be like long distance space travel will the human body be able to cope with the forces of the un-natural.
hmmmmm
Doesn't affect us Timelords! :-)
Leaving aside the possibility that share trades can be completed faster than light what does any of this have to do with money? If it had been thought that the money could have been better spent mankind would never have invented the wheel!
I think that the crux of this discussion is whether money should be spent on research such as the neutrino project or on improving the lot of the less well off in our world.
Neutrinos, definitely.
Neutering people is just wrong.
Oh I don't know G-Man. I can think of a few that maybe would be better off not reproducing.
LOL, Sidesalad and G-Man!!!!!
What like Ed Milliband?
I can read you mind Side-pea!
Quite a tongue twister there Feline try saying that 3 times in a row fast.
Can you do it?
Lol, Omen, just tried it...sounds like an angry wasp! ;-)
Does doesnt it!
>;o)
Aren't we sad on here. I was sat here saying it three times
and yes it does sound like a wasp. Time I got a life I think.
Oh, I don't know, Sabre, it's kind of fun! And I keep doing it now! :-)
I know fruity it's really compelling. I bet I dream of
wasps. I've had some really weird dreams lately and
have started laughing a lot when I'm asleep (it wakes me up).
Quite worrying when I don't know what I'm laughing at. Is this a sign of complete madness or just growing old?
No, don't worry, Sabre, it's just a sign of complete madness! ;-)
Sorry I've caused bad dreams, but I'm completely mad too!
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I don't believe people are 'slagging off Albert Einstein'.
Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed and this discovery could one day change our understanding of the universe and the way in which things work.
It doesn't mean previous scientists were wrong; all science is built on the foundation of others work. Given what they have now found out means that they are in a position to question a belief that has existed for almost a century.
That's not arrogance or even slagging someone off but it's offering a fundamental change in people's understanding, it's all part of mankinds thirst for knowledge.
Yes Parchester as a Scientist myself I understand the impact of this! However, what I have read in newspapers is that Albert Einstein didn't know what he was talking about, and the point I am making is that at the time he was 100% correct with the knowledge we had at that time!
Do I detect a smidgen of arrogance in your reply to me?!
'Yes Parchester as a Scientist myself I understand the impact of this!'
My reply to you isn't read just by you but in a 'debate forum' is given in order to offer information and develop a discussion amongst others, who perhaps do not have the knowledge base you possess.
Oh, God (if he or she exists) what have I started! Sorry!
Feline, I appear to have developed a touch of what you had yesterday, a no nonsense approach to what you're hearing and reading!!
Actually re-reading it, it does appear to be somewhat defensive!
I don't think anyone is 'slagging off' Einstein. What is being said is that if proved correct, then the finding about neutrinos will prove Einstein's theory to be wrong. But that seems to be a long way from happening. The scientists who produced this paper have not had it peer-reveiwed preferring to put it out for comment by the wider scientific community initially. As usual of course, all sorts of possibilities about time travel are now being discussed in the press.
Well, I'm all for time travel!! As a Dr Who fan since I was 7 years old...
Now, where the hell did I leave that Tardis key... :-)
Oh God - what have I started? Apologies if I caused you offence Parchester. This is the problem with text messages and email - sometimes things can be worded in a certain way and be misinterpreted!
I know what you mean, Lana, that's why I use a lot of 'smilies' so people know I'm not really having a go at them, just continuing the discussion :D :D :-))
It's a pity, Feline, that they don't do emoticons for people that take the pizzazz ....
I'm not sure how to do this emoticon thing?
Lana - a list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
I haven't been on the board for a few days as I've been off having a late summer break with my family, so I hope my absence hasn't been perceived as a sulk?!
No offence taken or indeed meant, Lana!
As an actor, my work requires me to interpret words and text and perhaps I was playing the role of victim at the time!! :-))