Hi fellow money friends, a question re politicians expenses.
| Related: | Personal Finance•Financial Services•Government |
I wonder if you have any thoughts about David Chaytor (jailed politican.)
He was sent to prison for eighteen months for stealing our money but the likelihood is he will probably only be incarcerated for five of them.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100070923/david-chaytor-debased-british-democracy/
Do you think the sentence is long enough, too long or should our great British judiciary have thrown away the key?
I look forward to your replies.
Responses (7)
It would appear that Mr Chaytor willfully and deliberately submitted false accounts and knew that what he was doing was wrong. Not only should he serve a longer sentence but he should lose all future benefits such as a parliamentary pension if he is entitled to one and the golden handshake that ex MP's receive if he were paid one!
Mr. Chaytor has repaid all the monies owed, in fact he has paid too much and is owed £800+.
All MP's must realise that there are consequences to their actions especially if they are corrupt.
However, Mr Chaytor exploited a system that was open to corruption and MP's are now even more aggrieved that the new system requires them to be fully accountable and this is causing them anger. It also seems that the millionaire Prime Minsiter accepts and understands their annoyance and is intent on having the expenses system reformed yet again to favour MP's and remove aspects of accountability.
We're all in this together is the mantra the government would have us believe but please don't believe that. Cameron and Osbourne have benefited financially from inheritance and have not paid their fair share of the taxes associated with their windfall.
Lillie, my understanding is that if an MP receives a prison sentence of a year or more, he or she is no longer permitted to be an MP, so, I'm happy with the sentence.
Thanks fruitcake, yes and rightly so.
So if an MP gets a prison sentence of less than a year can they still be an MP whilst in prison and after release? Is that right? Aren't MP's 'supposed' to be our pillars of society, our trusted leaders and so on? I must admit I know nothing about politics as I can't abide the whole lying cheating lot of them, but I would prefer that MP's not be allowed to be in office with any sort of criminal record or prison history.
I believe so, wendiew, but I do agree with you, it doesn't seem right that an MP could retain office despite a criminal record. In practice, however, most would either resign, or be 'persuaded' into resigning as an MP, as he or she is unlikely to be re-elected.
Hi Lillie
He should receive the same sentence that anybody else who did what he did received and the same outcomes in future status.
Generally if somebody is incarcerated for at all, there is no job waiting for them at the end of it, in fact people are most relunctant to employ an ex convict depending on the reasons of course!
For justice to be done it should be fair for all.
Exactly Vettriano, thank you
Sadly where there is money hence power there is no justice V.
The weak count their blessings while the rich count their money , the poor eat their porridge while the lords eat their honey!
My poetry is coming on a storm this month!
Although for true alliterative rythme i just couldnt get a food that rythmes with blessings?
>;o)
Eton messings...?? Seems sort of apt! But perhaps too many syllables? ;-)
It ryhmes and is apt as well.Clever cookie as usual!
Maybe you can help me with my Corporation tax, Ni paye topic Fruity?
Im beginning to wonder why I ever offered to help George with this as my ear resembles a cauliflower the amount of times I have been on the phone today - thankfully it was him calling me!!!
Umm, well now, poetry = fun, tax = not fun! :-)
You are so on the money there mind you I am learning a lot maybe Ill become an accountant after all this (NOT)!!!
>;O)
Job centre plus spend more time and effort securing employment for convicts through the prison system than the service they provide for the ordinary honest individual.
I think not, Omendata, accountants are always boring, and you're never boring, my dear!
We think alike yet again you sure you dont have a secret brother you dont know about!
Yes accountants are very boring, my friend Alistair (sorry Al) makes paint watching an active and interesting subject and he is a top accountant.
Oh and they are all into their porn in a big way!
I know that from all the pc's i used to go and fix and that is not a joke!
Hmm, perhaps! As for the porn, I guess they need something to brighten up their otherwise dull lives, although I'd have thought a sudoku square was porn to an accountant!:-)
This thief should serve the full sentence as he was in a position of trust as an elected representative of the people of this country. He should have been setting a good example for people to follow not robbing us blind.
Bang on Noddy, thank you.
Agreed Noddy1. We must be able to trust our representatives in parliament. Chaytor is dishonest and stole taxpayers money over several years knowing full well what he was doing. He should not get anything else from the public purse (ie pension or golden goodbye).
Whether you like it or not, the ordinary Joe in the street would have got a far more severe punishment than politicians do.An Eighteen month sentence is a joke and given that he will be released muich sooner "after good conduct" means he has already got off lightly.One rule for politicians and another for ordinary people.
If justice was done there would be several more MPs joining this thief.
It does seem that way.
Throwing away the key is not an option.
Mr Chaytor now has a criminal record, his ability to represent the public is in tatters. And he is a shining beacon to other MPs that none of them are beyond the law. Frankly, I thought that removing an MP's liberty in this way would never happen and we must congratulate the system that it has.
If you combine greed with opportunity, there will always be an event like this. Ironic though it may sound, it is absolutely wrong to expect people to 'do the right thing'.
Theft of public money is not restricted to our MPs. There are literally millions of pounds of taxpayers money misappropriated through the state benefit system every year and the bulk of those offenders never even hear the word 'prison'. But it is theft all the same. And very much a criminal offence. You could take any street, anywhere, and you will find at least one person making false application. You will never stop people lying, it's part of the human psyche.
AS such, I think Mr Chaytor has received what he is due. Just think how awful this would have been to have received nothing more than a caution or a conditional discharge, as thousands of benefit cheats do every year. Alas, the system is always there 'to be played' and that will continue unabated until someone literally takes the system away. And add to that the corruption that we increasingly see in our police force, and you wonder why any of us bother to get out of bed everyday.
Thanks Snoopy, yes I suppose we should give 'the system' some credit in it's admonishment of at least one of the miscreants, I look forward to hearing of others being equally held culpable and penalized.
Its everywhere apparently if you were watching the news tonight those scumsuckers who ran Tunisia ran off with 40 million in actual gold bullion if you can believe that.
What I want to know is how these people like Idi Amin , Polpot , Mugabi and this new lot are allowed to get away with these things and actually have countries willing to harbour them.
It seems only the rotten and bad people get away with it.
Then there are the two poor parent of that girl who was murdered going through what must be the ultimate nightmare.
Perhaps as certain Philosophers have said we have created our own hell and are now living in it.
In order to ascend we must follow the Buddhist principles in which case dont worry folks most of the people I've "met" on here seem to be lovely folks so you are all on the ascendancy!
>:o()
They're normally ran by terror and fear Omendata,
these meglomaniacal dictators can run for so long before the inevitable worm turns.
Stories like theirs make our government look like petty criminals, I must say though that in our modern day democracy we expect and deserve so much more and better.
Yes, and Baby Doc's back in Haiti!!
Brilliant discussion, Lillie and, unsurprisingly, it's generated some pretty strong views.
Having read everybody else's comments, all I can add is that if I had fiddled my expenses when I was working I would certainly have got the sack, and probably a criminal conviction as well - my future employment prospects would have been bleak to say the least.
But look at the likes of Jeffrey Archer and Jonathon Aitken, both now making pots of money on the public speaking circuits, and probably a few non-executive directorships to top up their millions.
Thanks Feline, yes I fear I've opened some wounds here but as you rightly say in your second para anyone else would have the book thrown at them with barely any future prospects to speak of, so how do they continue to make shed loads of money?
I wonder if they manage to sleep soundly at night!
Sadly, Lillie I expect they do as these people appear to have no conscience. Unlike you, unlike me, and probably unlike most people on this site who would lie awake at night if they realised they had accidentally fiddled the milkman out of a couple of quid!
In fact, the other day, I broke into a cold sweat when I remembered that there was £1.80 sitting on the side in my kitchen that I owed my neighbour for eggs. It's a fair walk round from my house to hers, even though the houses are only about 20 metres apart, and the weather had been awful so it had just got left for a week. I put the money in an envelope and went straight round in the rain to drop it through her letterbox.
She sent me an email later to say, 'Don't be silly, I knew you weren't going to emigrate' but the lessons learned in childhood are hard to unlearn.
Do you think this might be an age thing? I don't know how old you are, although I suspect quite a bit younger than I am, but some of the people I regularly agree with are, I know, of similar vintage to me. Might also have something to do with class (gets a bit contentious!!!) I was brought up in the fifties in a working class home where the rules were that you didn't have what you couldn't afford, and you were honest above all things. A lot of the people who are taking the pee with the expenses scams came from privileged backgrounds where they may have been conditioned to think they could just take what they wanted from life and to hell with whomever might get hurt by it.
Sorry, this is developing into a bit of a rant, and getting dangerously close to sounding like being a whinge about other people's advantages in life. Nothing could be further from the truth - I managed to have a successful career, am now retired and happy with my lot, and not at all envious of those who have more than I in material terms.
Perhaps an old-style 1960's grammar school education could also be a factor? Not that I have anything against private education for those who can afford it and choose to spend their money on it, but it might just reinforce the feelings of privilege and superiority that lead to corruption. I realise that's a very sweeping statement, as I know there are many privately educated people who share our values but, for some who didn't have the moral grounding, it might be tempting to ride rough-shod over people whom they consider to be inferior.
Wow, I think I'd better shut up now - oh bugger, not time for a G & T just yet!
Would be most interested to hear views on this.
Thanks again Feline,as rants go, yes this is particularly a good one and well worthy of that G&T and be assured that somewhere in the world the sun is over that yardarm so go ahead and fill those glasses.
I recall and old adage saying 'out of debt out of danger'and like you I've tried to uphold that over the years though sometimes it's been mighty difficult.
I too was brought up in a working class environment with good values and a good work ethic which hubby and I have passed on to our two sons and hopefully they will impart those and more to their youngsters.
I see you've invited me to be a friend, how nice, I'm very pleased to meet you.
I must admit I didn't know that facility was on here.
I think it's time i have a further look around the site.
Thanks once again, now go and enjoy that drink.
Thanks, Lillie, I'll have that drink now and talk in a couple of days. We're off to France tomorow to stock up on goodies. Not really looking forward to the trip as I have to do all the driving as Mr F has MS. I can't drive there and back in a day at this time of year (not enough hours of daylight) so we'll have a night in a hotel with, hopefully, nice dinner and head home after breakfast on Thursday with gin and wine!
Have a nice time Feline!
You deserve a wee break!
I quake at the thought of the petrol bill though!
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Oh well said Parchester, I totally concur with all of your points especially para 3.
We now wait to find out what happens to the other culprits.
Thanks for your reply
Yes stick em away for 10 years that might frighten the rest of them into line.
Some of the worst offenders got away with just paying it back there were a few who ripped off £100,000 - Lord Pearson, Lady Uddin, Lord Bashir I believe to mention but two.
I think they are just making a show of a few "LOWER-LEVEL" ie Cannon fodder MPs but you can be sure the ones with Lord or Lady before their names will do no time at all and probably get a bonus like the bankers!
Cannon Fodder MP's, Lol.
I know I'd like to line all the offenders up in front of one.
Oh please don't mention 'bonuses' I'm likely to implode ...again.
Sadly most of our honourable men and women have considerable financial skeletons in their closets. But like our beloved Cabinet they have found creative ways round paying their fair share.
Now we have Eric Illsley, a sitting MP who has admitted 'false accounting', which is a nice way of saying defrauding the public purse, which is another way of saying OUR hard earned money. HE has decided to stand down as an MP. He should be publicly placed in the stocks and humiliated prior to serving a very long prison sentence.
Honourable !!
Charlatans, yes off to the stocks with them.
It would happen if the public really got together en-masse like France,Greece it all depends on how hard you are pushed - I foresee a push back coming soon if things dont change - i dont know anyone who is not extremely angry about bankers bonuses and now politicians lies and theft - it always starts with students protests - ie China etc.
Once people are taxed so gighly they have more money going out than in an cannot survive the kettle will boil - shame it will be David Camoron that will bear the brunt it should be Gordon Brownose and Tony Blair who caused all of this.
Any other employee in the UK could not claim for 75% of the things MPs claim for. They manipulate and fleece the system at the end of the day if they ain't satisfied with there wage and other packages they should quit public life and get a proper job.